foehydercambbar.ga/punch-or-the-london-charivari-2.php With the Penal Substitution Theory being the dominant view of the evangelical movement, and with Christus Victor being given new prominence through thinkers like Greg Boyd, this very short read is timely and useful. In the first part, Tony addresses the issue of Original Sin. Where did the doctrine co It will be hard to expound on this book by Tony Jones and do it the credit it deserves. Where did the doctrine come from? Is it reasonable?
Is it Biblical? After dealing with on of the most essential understandings of human nature, Jones takes time to affirm the literal life, literal death and literal resurrection of Jesus and why such an affirmation is so important note: his reasons are not necessarily "typical". He then closes the book with a VERY useful explanation of the different atonement theories and what they bring to the table. The book is very illuminating and challenging and I would recommend it to be read by anyone interested in matters of theology.
Dec 06, MaryAnn rated it liked it. A decent overview of the different views of the atonement. I'm leading a discussion in January at the church I serve on "why did Jesus have to die" which was suggested by members of the church. This will help. I think the book is short by design, but I did want a little longer description of the different views, including where Tony eventually lands.
The book ends abruptly--I wanted more discussion about the implications of the solidarity approach to the atonement. That said, it's a quick read an A decent overview of the different views of the atonement.
That said, it's a quick read and very accessible. Mar 29, Mike rated it it was amazing. Apr 01, Richard Propes rated it liked it. Tony Jones seems to have much the same impact on me as does Nadia Bolz-Weber; I enjoy hearing them speak, admire and often agree with their work, but simply don't find myself immersed within their writing.
I've had "A Better Atonement" for quite a while, but I'd never really entered the world of e-books and had, as such, never sat down and actually read it. As a fairly new Amazon Prime member and Fire owner, I've finally been doing some heavy reading and finally got around to reading this book. It's a well informed book that seems to almost be written in an off the cuff manner, though I'm fairly certain it was not. How you accept a more progressive theology will likely at least partly determine your embrace of the book.
This is especially true when Jones adopts an almost snarky attitude toward more conservative doctrines. I had few issues with the actual material contained within "A Better Atonement," but instead found myself simply weary of what feels like a flippant attitude and a simplification that appears largely based upon the fact that Jones is clearly writing from his own personal experiences and perspectives.
Having seen Jones speak, he's confident yet not flippant. This book isn't nearly as engaging as a Jones speaking engagement. I appreciated "A Better Atonement," but didn't particularly "learn" anything from it. I was aware of the doctrines already - essentially, the book adds Jones's own thoughts and beliefs to the equation.
That for me, makes it only modestly worthwhile. For those less familiar with atonement doctrines and theories, "A Better Atonement" may actually be a good place to start as it's written rather fundamentally and provides solid, generalized description of several theories. It'd be a great place to start. For those of us who graduated seminary? There's simply nothing new offered here. Jun 08, Tom rated it liked it Shelves: emerging-church , theology , kindle , Rating this book was very difficult.
At times it deserved the three stars it eventually got, other times it deserved 5 stars Tony Jones pulls no punches in denying original sin and does a decent job of providing numerous reasons as to why it may not be such a clear cut doctrine as we are typically, at least those of us raised in christian homes and churches, bound to believe.
This does not mean that I have dropped my position of adhering to the idea of original sin, but it does mean t Rating this book was very difficult. This does not mean that I have dropped my position of adhering to the idea of original sin, but it does mean that I am at least willing to listen to what he has to say and to consider his perspective.
In some ways what Tony does in this book is no different than what many recent authors have been doing in other places. First, they are challenging the idea that we can simply look at the bible and walk away with the "plain meaning" of scripture. We cannot do this because none of us come to the text without influences that color, shade and even blind us to how we read and understand the Bible.
It just simply doesn't happen. To say "this is what the Bible says" is nothing more, at least on one level than saying, "this is my understanding of what the Bible says". Second, Tony and others are opening up the doctrine of the atonement and doing a couple of things. They are allowing the atonement to have its full breath rather than simply pigeon-holing an entire doctrine into one idea that scripture itself does speak to but also uses the atonement to talk about ransom, victory, etc.
They are allowing the doctrine of the atonement, in it's full vibrancy and color, to speak to how we understand what really happened through the death and resurrection of Christ. What does all this have to do with Original Sin? According to Tony Jones and, again, others, where one starts will help determine where one ends up. If one starts with the idea that we are bad creatures with a sin problem that is somehow passed down from generation to generation then what we need is some legal transaction that takes away that sin by a capable person who is able to satisfy the wrath and judgment of the one we have offended.
Jun 10, Joel rated it it was ok. This book - more of a booklet, really - was more of an interesting introduction to the author's personal tableau of doctrines than anything else. It seems pretty clear that this work started out as a series of blog posts rather than as a book proper. What that means is that the emphasis is more on a conversational tone at the expense of being patient and comprehensive.
Theological ideas and propositions are tossed out there for your consideration and you are casually invited to consider how the This book - more of a booklet, really - was more of an interesting introduction to the author's personal tableau of doctrines than anything else. Theological ideas and propositions are tossed out there for your consideration and you are casually invited to consider how the implications affect each other, without being offered a comprehensive treatment of the author's preparing.
In other words, most of the thinking is left as an exercise to the reader. That's not necessarily good or bad, it's just a function of expectations. I would have perhaps liked to see the words "sketch" or "introduction" in the title to set the reader's expectations to match the booklet's quick, broad outline mode of presenting the ideas. Some compelling examples and arguments were made in this book, nearly all from church history rather than the scriptural text. His main argument seems to be that moral depravity was the invention of Augustine and later augmented by Calvin et.
For example, when the booklet shifted into a discussion of penal substitution atonement, the first thing that came to mind are verses that specifically use the word "propitiation" which strongly suggests a PSA interpretation. Nowhere was this addressed or even mentioned. Ultimately the booklet gave me enough material to consider these "alternative" ideas about atonement and moral depravity, but left the vast majority of my questions unanswered.
I am glad he wrote it, however; I find it best to think of it as basically one round in an ongoing discussion, and a very civil one at that. Sep 18, Greg Dill rated it really liked it. Excellent book although somewhat poorly written. Written in a very casual way as if I was sitting across from the author at a cafe having a conversation.
Normally, this is good if it is done well. But, Tony hasn't quite mastered the craft of casual writing like other authors have such as Rob Bell. Nevertheless, I give this a high rating because the content was spectacular. Jones does a good job dismantling the doctrine of Original Sin in the first half of the book, albeit with some loopholes.
He Excellent book although somewhat poorly written.
He then introduces the various types of atonement theories in the second half. I was particularly struck by the introduction of Christus Victor, an early church term used to describe Christ's victory on the cross over sin and death which liberates humanity to live lives of love without the fear of death.
I was also struck by an atonement theory he introduces by Miroslav Volf called "Inclusive Substitution" whereby God himself in the person of Jesus Christ put himself between God and humanity on the cross as an act of forgiveness. In other words, Jesus was not some third party, but instead He is the forgiving God himself who put his life on the cross to bridge the gap between man and God. Overall, excellent content but written fairly choppy. And, it seems to end abruptly without Tony giving us a summarization of what he believes to be the best atonement theory.
But, because of the content of this book, and the many new and fresh things I was introduced to, most of which makes sense I give it a 4-star rating. Highly recommended for those who want an easy-to-read and brief theological subject that will get you thinking long and hard about some key points of long held and perhaps faulty doctrinal beliefs.
Jan 16, Anita rated it really liked it. This book is in two parts. Jones explains his rejection of this doctrine. He fails, however, to show alternatives. I am a Lutheran, so our confession is not the "total depravity" of Calvinism, but that "we are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves. I wish Tony Jones had included this type of alternative in Part One. However, I loved the This book is in two parts. However, I loved the second part. In a simple but not simplistic way he summarizes the major atonement theories, sets them in historical context and cites some of the source documents, and evaluates their impact.
This approach is important in our teaching among Christians. I find that few Christians know or have been taught these things, though worship songs and hymnody and prayers often include the presumption of one or more specific atonement theories. It is important for us to learn together the difference, and as a Lutheran pastor I will design a course to use in my congregation during Lent where we will look at the atonement - the meaning of the death and resurrection of Jesus - and I will share Jones' work as a resource. View 1 comment. Dec 03, Ben rated it really liked it.
This book was a quick and useful read. It was nothing revolutionary - more of a summary of others thoughts and theories - but it gave a small glimpse into Tony's take on the atonement as well.
Burnhope V. Reviews Editorial reviews. Rating this book was very difficult. Alma did not pray to have his afflictions removed. FAQ Policy. There is only Christian dogmatics pursued in the context of particular social and intellectual situations.
There are many other more complete summaries of existing thought on the atonement out there, such as Mark Baker's "Proclaiming the Scandal of the Cross". I really enjoyed reading this book though as it gave me a bit more insight on the push and pull a follower of Jesus like Tony feels between liberal and c This book was a quick and useful read. I really enjoyed reading this book though as it gave me a bit more insight on the push and pull a follower of Jesus like Tony feels between liberal and conservative sides of Christianity to put their stamp on him.
He doesn't really fit either camp and doesn't want to, chastising both sides equally and justifiably in my opinion. I feel much of the same kind of tug of war in my own life and it's encouraging to see someone else openly question and eventually come to rest on an admitted theory while not completely pleasing anyone. This is well worth your time to read. Dec 09, Gabriel Harder rated it really liked it.
Tony provides a clear, concise discussion of atonement theories in this little book.
I would give the first half of the book dealing with the shortcomings of penal substitution five stars and the second half of the book dealing with alternative atonement Tony provides a clear, concise discussion of atonement theories in this little book. I would give the first half of the book dealing with the shortcomings of penal substitution five stars and the second half of the book dealing with alternative atonement theories three stars with an average of four stars.
The Slavery of Death by Richard Beck is a good follow-up for anyone interesting in approaching atonement with a stronger existential and empirical grounding. Apr 04, Elsa rated it liked it Shelves: ministry , kindle. This little book seems to end without a conclusion. As much as Tony tries to explain the various approaches to atonement over the centuries, he hesitates to claim one for himself.
This doesn't bother me except for the fact that the opening chapter seems to insist upon clarity. It is written in such a way that he seems to be arguing with himself or some other conversation partner. I want to know his intended audience and why he's chosen to pick this fight. Perhaps this missing voice explains the This little book seems to end without a conclusion. Perhaps this missing voice explains the lack of conclusion.
What I appreciate most is the observation that the early church never argued over this matter, so that atonement may not actually be a central matter of faith.
This is a new idea to me and one I'm grateful to have read. Feb 25, Paul Rack rated it liked it. A good overview of the debates over atonement theory in emerging Christianity. Lots of common sense and balance. Rejects, or at least severely demotes, the traditional western "penal-substitutionary" view, for well-articulated good reasons, mainly that it reduces the resurrection to an afterthought.
This public conversation took place on Friday, April 28, at Alfred Street Baptist Church alongside our third North American gathering, Awakenings: The. Beyond Atonement- Recovering the Full Meaning of the Cross eBook- N.T. Wright, Greg Boyd, & Ruth Padilla DeBorst. Event: Awakenings Speakers: N.T.
However, my view of the atonement is that it has to be based on Old Testament understanding derived from Leviticus 16, Exodus 12, Isaiah 53, etc. Jones still tends to look backward from our situation A good overview of the debates over atonement theory in emerging Christianity. Jones still tends to look backward from our situation to the NT text, rather than forward from the OT context.
I'm glad he agrees with me on the importance of the bodily resurrection of Jesus. And he is critical of the Jesus Seminar types on this and other points, showing, to me anyway, that emergent and progressive are not identical. Feb 23, Sam rated it really liked it. While I admire Jones' efforts, and am profoundly grateful that he would attempt to ignite conversation around the atonement, I certainly can't say he convinced me of anything.
This booklet was immensely helpful as a brief compendium of theories of the atonement, and gave me new knowledge and things to think about. He needs more space and more time to fill in the things he presupposes in order to get to his conclusion. There were far too many places where he led into his evidence or arguments by st While I admire Jones' efforts, and am profoundly grateful that he would attempt to ignite conversation around the atonement, I certainly can't say he convinced me of anything. There were far too many places where he led into his evidence or arguments by stating that they're less effective if you haven't already taken theological leaps on topics like creation, sin, and demons.
Apr 28, Kevin rated it liked it. A very short but accessible introduction to the issues surrounding various theories of atonement. It was an engaging and thought provoking essay but it really left me wanting more depth and detail. Of course, I am not sure I have the time or focus to really dig into these issues. Jones rejects the concept of Original Sin and the growing tendency to equate Penal Substitution as the Gospel. He reviews the various historical approaches to atonement and then offers his own.
Books like this are really A very short but accessible introduction to the issues surrounding various theories of atonement. Books like this are really one of the benefits of the growth of ebook publishing. A nice extended essay on a hot topic for only a couple of dollars. Baker and Joel B.
Eerdmans, Usually from unknown authors and used in villages, the same ajru may have different variants. The present ajru is one such story from an unknown author. We wish to thank you yet again for the wonderful ideas you offered Jeremy when preparing a post-graduate research as well as, most importantly, pertaining to providing each of the ideas in a single blog post. If we had known of your site a year ago, we may have been kept from the unwanted measures we were selecting.
Thanks to you. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. Share on Facebook. What other ways would you consider as you imagine the wider meaning of the cross? No Christians without the Spirit of Christ. A Holy Spirit Creed. The Fulfillment of the Promised Holy Spirit.
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